Comments on: Remington Introduces new 30 Remington AR Cartridge

By: John A

John A — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 22:42:27 +0000

I’m more interested in the Dedicated Technolocy and Olympic 300 OSSM cartridge. From what I have seen of their ballistics testing of that round, has more power than this round or even a full size 30-06. HSM is making the 300 OSSM rounds as I type this.

By: Travis Bishop

Travis Bishop — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:36:55 +0000

I was hoping someonme would ‘catch on’ to that. I was using the Garand in metaphorical terms, since it was the forerunner to the 14. IMHO, it would be very hard to beat an M-14/1991-A1 .45acp/Rem. 870 Tactical fitted scattergun, outfitted squad. The ‘Old School’ MGs would stay the same/ M1917 1919. et al, would be reinstated. All this new fangled, modular, popcan synthetic crap out here on the battlefield today looks good in sifi flicks, But in the real world of actually having to defend our liberty, and ones self, against a determined enemy, stopping power is where it’s at. We managed to defeat Japan and Germany with the now outdated weaponry, so…In light of new technology, about the only place it plays a serious role in light of useful tactical advantages, is the the sniper role, explosive ordnance capabilities, etc…

By: Doug D.

Doug D. — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:13:48 +0000

Short M1 Garand with more capacity? Sounds like the Springfield M1A Squad/Scout Rifle (a.k.a., M14). The .308 isn’t exactly a .30-06, but it’s close enough for me. Better than that prairie dog gun we’re using now.

By: Travis Bishop

Travis Bishop — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:04:08 +0000

Ok…look…what is with all this so-called ‘New and Improved’ horse pucky? I mean, how long did the 45-70 serve the combat needs before being replaced? Why was it replaced? The 30-40 Krag? They were replaced for a reason. Although effective man-stoppers, firepower issues prevailed. John Moses Browning and John Garand answered everybodies questions and eliminated all the inherent problems associated being able to bring enough lead-chunkers to the fight. The several .30 cal MG’s, the Ma Deuce, the BAR, the M1…moving on to even the M14…sided with the 1911-A1 and the Slam-Fire King, the venerable Winchester Model of 1897 in trench gun costume, are without peer on anybodies battlefield. Hell, think about it. Even the hammer cocked ‘97 was so feared by the Germans that they appealed to the powers that be to outlaw the thing from the trenches. The Garand would seriously rock any ones world. Money and investment aside, how about bringing back the Garand, BAR, the 1919, Mod ‘97, and the 1911. They would look fine in synthetic ‘Hold’ems’. If capacity was an issue, I believe the Italians answered that one with the BM-59. I think a Garand modified to inhale BAR mags would be the ultimate Hodgie-Popper. But, you scream, they need a short barrel for the CQB problem…Fine, I say…ummmm…what happened to the M1 Garand Tanker version? The thing is, why have a Mattel Popgun that would serve well as a Whiffle Bat, when you can hold a big chunk of American hardwood and iron that will sling a ass-singeing chunk of lead at some disagreeable character with extreme authority…then if it comes to knuckle and skull style, let fly with that butt stroke and watch the teeth and hair fly. Range issues? .223 vs ‘06? Hmmm….I wonder.

By: Arne

Arne — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:44:37 +0000

The 6.5 Grendel actually started its life in the 6.5 PPC for competition use first in 1984 for the US Shooting Team and later in 1998 for the AR15. Hunting was more of a “oh, yea,,it would make a nice deer round” after thought. The 6.5 PPC in the AR15 was created with a simple theory – create a ballistic twin of the 7.62 NATO. When you take a bullet like the 108 Lapua Scenar (478 BC) driven at 2650 fps in a 20 inch barrel, you have that. The branded 6.5 Grendel is nothing more than an improved version of the PPC and that is no recent innovation as improved versions of the PPC have been around for over 20 years.

The 30 AR I dont see Remington thinking about as anything but a hunting round and for Remington that is a large market. Given Remington’s mass as a manufacturer,, a cartridge manufactured by them has more staying power than any cartridge released by any small company. In fact, as an ongoing concern, Remington has far more obligation to continue to support products they have released than a small company that can (and often do) close their doors leaving customers with nothing.

As far as the next military round, the military will eventually move forward with replacement of the M16, but not while US forces are engaged in two major areas of conflict. Until then, the military has enough to do to keep supplying the active forces in the field. When the military does move forward, Remington has been building a very strong position to be a US owned and based player in that competition.

By: Ray

Ray — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:35:56 +0000

That new .260 does look promising. Might be one to check out if the Grendel fails.

By: Ray

Ray — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:24:45 +0000

As some one who has used the AR in combat-yes the AR needs more oomph. We can already have this in the 6.5 Grendel or the 6.8 SPC. For me the 6.5 Grendel would win out because of better ballistics at the longer ranges, however the 6.8 probably should be the main round for the Infantry as 500 meters is where the 6.5 leaves the 6.8 and most Infantry combat won’t go over that. So I doubt that Remington is going to push this as the next Military round. The military has invested heavily in the M16/M4 Series of rifles and the 5.56. The excellent MOD 262 77 grain has extended the effectiveness of the 5.56 the troops just can’t get the military to buy the stuff in sufficient quantities to do any good. This round is perfect for the type of enemy we face in Iraq and Afghanistan and if they ever start using body armor we still have the 62 grain green tip M855.SOCOM has dibs on this cartridge.
The 6.8 SPC started its life with SF trying to get more bang for the buck in combat and the 6.5 Grendel started as ah hunting round when Bill Alexander saw the potential for the round in war. The Military has resisted both.
As some one who posted above the .243 is not an IDEAL cartridge for combat, it is however good for Coyotes and Deer. The 6.5 Grendel if memory serves caries 25 or 28 in the mag and the 6.8 SPC carries 28 or 30.
As discovered long ago the best Assault Rifle Cartridge is somewhere in the 6 mm to 7 mm range. The Military is holding out for something truly revolutionary before buying the next rifle system so don’t look for any thing in this realm soon and with what was elected to the White House we may not see anything in the next 6 to 8 years if then.
The Military has stuck with the 7.62/.308 and 5.56/.223 because they are known qualities and the pencil pushers in the Pentagon are resistant to change fighting the last war.

So it would seem to me that Remington is doing nothing more that trying to grab their share of the AR market with the R15 and R25 built by Bushmaster. How this will go over when other cartridges are out there to include the 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC,.25 WSSM, 300 WSSM,.450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM, .50 Beowulf,.308, .243, .204 Ruger and the .300 RSUM (which was just discontinued). So buyer beware unless you plan on handloading.

By: robert

robert — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:29:48 +0000

You guys already had a winner in the.260. You should develop around the 7mm or 6.5 rounds to get better down range performance! Keep at it you’ll get there.

By: Tony

Tony — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:30:27 +0000

Innovation always has detours along with breakthroughs. My Saiga 308 (which cost $350 brand new) works great with either an 8 rd. or 25 rd. magazine. I’ve never understood why people don’t like kalashnikovs. They’re inexpensive and reliable. Of course if money is no object…

By: george

george — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 07:22:19 +0000

like they said below make it in 6.8 SPC it will kill a deer and have more rounds in the mag, they havent learmed any thing from 7mm and 300 SAUM cartridges failures, you can ad wsms to that also my opinion,
if anything load the 30 ar with 150gr bullets
at like 2450 fps a 30-30 preformance thats semi auto would sell even beter but I guees 2800 fps poor BC and SD sound beter when some one hits a deer in the shoulder and the light accutip fails to penetrate I guees he has more semi auto shots he needs to fire to kill the deer